Theory From the Closet - Latest Comments

Re: Show052: Live interview with Vincent Baker

Oberon — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:49:49 -0000

Clyde! Check out this game: http://thepath-game.com/
I'd have posted this back on the comments to the ep about Silence, but I wasn't sure if you'd notice it, so I'm posting it here.

Re: Show052: Live interview with Vincent Baker

Oberon — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:20:27 -0000

I should note that I still think there's more to the issue than *just* rules engagement.

Re: Show052: Live interview with Vincent Baker

robosnake — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:46:43 -0000

Yup. Lack of traction means you spin out...or drift, as it were :)

Re: Show052: Live interview with Vincent Baker

Dave (aka Nev) — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:11:44 -0000

On rereading my rant there (I'm egotistical like that), I do notice a potential correlation between the "traction" concept and rules-engagement, which is that when we play games where the rules won't reliably give us what we want, we tend to try to find ways around them- often on the social level or whatever. Like parleying in D&D. There aren't really rules for it, except "see if you can bullshit your way past the GM". That, I can see as an example of withdrawing from engagement with the rules as a reaction to perceived lack of traction within the rules.

Does that make sense?

Re: Show052: Live interview with Vincent Baker

Dave (aka Nev) — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:07:43 -0000

Wow. That was annoying to listen to. But hey, that's podcasting for ya. I'm sure it will improve.

Much better convo with Vincent than the last one I heard with him- that clouds and boxes shit was indecipherable. Sorry, Vincent. I still think you're the man.

I wanted to unpack Joel's "traction vs. randomness" thing a bit. That's definitely not about rules engagement, in my experience- it is its own thing. I usually come down solidly on the "traction" side- why bother making decisions if you can't reasonably expect your actions to weight the results sufficiently to achieve goals? I tend to break down into a puddle when in a situation where there is no course of action I can expect a reasonable chance of achieving with the mechanics. This is an independent issue from "points of contact" or "engagement with the mechanics". The mechanics of Don't Rest Your Head, for example, are hella engaging. When you play that game, you are f*cking ENGAGED, 100% of the time. You can't really not be. AND, separate from that, you have a reasonable expectation that if you make a decision, you can make progress toward achieving that goal. The mechanics of the ORE have far more points of contact than DRYH, and arguably you can be just as engaged with them, but the expectation of reliable achievement depends entirely on where your character's requisite skill falls on the curve. When playing in an adventure-fantasy setting, I found this often frustrating. I was engaging the mechanics, but could not get traction. When playing in a medical drama setting, engaging equally with the mechanics as in the fantasy setting, I found myself coming down much more comfortably on the "randomness" side of the scales- abject failure in the face of best efforts being an understood core trope of medical drama as a genre.

I'm kind of babbling, so I'm not sure I'm getting my point across. I'm just trying to add weight to Joel's ideas about "traction vs. randomness" as a legitimate issue for further examination, aside from (but not necessarily separate from) issues of Creative Agenda... perhaps tied in more with Vincent's idea of "Technical Agenda", which also makes sense to me, whether or not it can be teased out from CA or not.

Thanks for another good show, Clyde; keep 'em comin'!

Re: Show052: Live interview with Vincent Baker

Doug — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:34:56 -0000

The live interaction was a cool idea but was a little clunky. I just take that kind of difficulty to be inevitable when you first try something, and I'm not worried about it.

I was wondering if you can point me in the direction of an article or blog post or something that is about Simulationism/Right to Dream but written by someone who really likes it. I have an inkling that RtD describes the play that I most enjoy, but I keep encountering descriptions from Forge-types who love Story Now and occasionally dip into Step on Up but seem to have this kind of masked contempt for RtD, making their descriptions of it almost impossible for me to identify with (or, frankly, really understand).

I don't know if this was the case for VB - he definitely didn't seem to see what the fun of RtD would actually be, and rightly identified himself as probably not the right person to talk about it...I'm wondering who is the right person. (I tried to read Ron Edwards' essay on RtD but being outside of the Big Model bubble I didn't really follow how what he was saying was meaningful, though clearly others find it to be).

Re: Show052: Live interview with Vincent Baker

Micah — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:22:34 -0000

Yeah, some notes would probably take care of that, but you wouldn't need too much material considering that some of the follow up would be coming from the audience.

Re: Subscribers

Clyde_L_Rhoer — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:52:26 -0000

Thanks Telarus. 2+3, I always say. Although sometimes I say 5 by 5. Check out the interview I did with John Wick, he's a practicing Discordian I think. I'm just a pretender.

Re: Show052: Live interview with Vincent Baker

Clyde_L_Rhoer — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:43:04 -0000

Yeah... they certainly frustrated me. I love the idea of interaction, I'm trying to figure out a way to make that a standard for the show. It was also more difficult, I missed a lot of follow ups, and a few things I meant to discuss, which means I'll have to quit slacking on prep to go the live route.

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

Clyde_L_Rhoer — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:38:14 -0000

Hey Micah,

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. On the subject of bangs... I hear your point. I also think the more clear explanation is also due to my increased understanding of what a bang is... compared to two or so years ago. I do agree that my shows with other people are much more interesting, than my solo shows. Heh, we can't all be Tevis. I think though that there are times when a solo show is a better way to deliver the particular information I have.

Re: Show052: Live interview with Vincent Baker

Micah — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:30:24 -0000

The technical issues were a bit frustrating but the discussion was interesting. I like the idea of interaction, I wish I had been able to follow along when it was happening. Next time for sure.

Re: Subscribers

Telarus, KSC — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:28:52 -0000

Damn, forgive the sleep deprived typos. Now to finish listening to ep00025, then go back to que up the 00001.

Re: Subscribers

Telarus, KSC — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:15:57 -0000

All Hail Discordia!

Holy crap, I haven't been checking in on Forge-y action and the indie community in a while (got here from a link from Ron in a recent thread on the Forge). I've got a bit to catch up on. I'm probably going to use you podcasts to open up some RPG theory discussions on the principiadiscordia.com forums. Here, have a memebomb: A Conclusion is simple where you've Stopped Thinking.

+5 Tons of Flax for the site, btw.

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

Micah — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:12:38 -0000

Clyde,
I finally finished getting through listening to all of the back episodes, but I wanted to comment on this episode specifically because it stands out as one of the best in the series.

The game discussion was really interesting for the game theory and design as well as the subject matter of both of the games. It was really inspiring to me. I like how both of you have done games that explore things that are so personal and important to you. It changes my understanding of what game design is for (or, rather, can be for).

One thing that I wanted to point out to you Clyde, is that your explanation of Bangs in this episode was far more clear and concise than either of your other attempts in previous episodes. I think you really benefit from having another person to interact with. It's something you might want to consider as you do more theory episodes.

Re: Installed Disqus

Clyde_L_Rhoer — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 04:08:29 -0000

I think the latest wordpress has threaded comments now. I think that means that without a lot of blogs buying into Disqus that it limits it's use as an early adopter. Plus it doesn't seem to work well with my noscript addon for Firefox.

Re: Show050: Interview with Eero Tuovinen

Eero Tuovinen — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 19:19:00 -0000

Damn, I sound stupid in English. Never realized it before. No wonder Americans don't seem to get my wit at times, I sound like a confused hamster.

Also, I'll know to speak much, much slower the next time I do a voice interview. Ridonculous.

Re: Installed Disqus

TheGamerTraveler — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:58:59 -0000

I like how this plugin handles threaded comments. I think I'll give it a try in one of my blogs and see how it works out.

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

TheGamerTraveler — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:56:24 -0000

Clyde and Chris, this was a fantastic episode, incredibly candid and offering excellent windows into both of you as people and game designers. I saw both your games at GC and failed to engage with either; as I listen to you talk about the games, I realize that the Ashcan Front format may have hindered both in "selling" what your games were really about to people. I look forward to having an opportunity to look at both games with fresh eyes if only to give some better feedback.

I'm still digesting the conversation. I wish I could have been there at times to add to the conversation, which to me is the hallmark of a great podcast interview/conversation. I'll come back later with more once I hear it again.

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

Rich Rogers — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:19:36 -0000

Clyde,

I believe I do have your email at home on my gmail account, I will shoot you a request shortly.

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

Comrade Andrew — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:07:38 -0000

There were probably a few areas about which I could have opined, but the one that sticks in my mind arose when Chris was talking about how the world would react to a divine avatar, or a messiah. Leaving aside the distinctions between avatars, messiahs and christs for a moment, I would have added a little from my current work on Kierkegaard.

His opinion was that a genuinely divine revelation is characterised by (amongst other things) being offensive to people. That is to say, when a person is confronted with a divine message, it will offend them. His used of "offend" is probably best thought of as something like "challenge the foundations of core beliefs and lifestyle" but not in a contemplative way - it's in a way that forces a decision. For Kierkegaard, a divine message was incompatible and incommensurable with the established order. One will always attempt to destroy the other (thus, Kierkegaard opposes any form of theocracy).

Chris' game seems to be about this moment of offense, and the reactions and responses to that offense. "What would you do if the foundations of your beliefs were threatened with destruction?" Great question.

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

Clyde_L_Rhoer — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:59:20 -0000

Yeah... I noticed I was a bit more forward with my opinions. I think part was being on Canon Puncture, and the other part was I didn't know a lot about Messiah.

Also you haven't emailed me so I can get that file to you. Do you have the address?

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

Clyde_L_Rhoer — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:54:36 -0000

Hey, thanks again Andrew. Glad you're still enjoying the show. I'm curious, what did you want to add?

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

Comrade Andrew — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:18:39 -0000

I've been listening to TFTC for a while, and this is the best episode I've yet heard. As a gamer, I felt challenged about my gameplay; as a theologian, I wished I was there to add to the debate.

Great work, Clyde (and Chris), for the challenge and the inspiration.

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

Rich Rogers — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:25:05 -0000

Now I'm listening to Clyde interview Perrin (actually, it is more of a discussion than an interview).

Perrin, the meat of your drive to make this game is very compelling to me. I wish I'd heard this back when you wanted to playtest it.

Now I wish we'd played it in a real world setting face-to-face rather than over Skype and in the Dune setting.

Re: Show051: Interview with Chris Perrin and Clyde L. Rhoer

Clyde_L_Rhoer — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:58:36 -0000

Also since the child can't talk it really stretches your GM as entertainer muscles, and that likely also leads to the feeling of it being draining. I've always thought of it as a game you wouldn't play more than a few times, and it seems to be holding up to that. Ha.